CORE Radio Interview Transcript with Sasha Ivanov – Sunday, January 15, 2017

Everything is fine and we’re working. Holidays are over and we’re back to work. We have so many things to do and I’d like to share our plans for the upcoming weeks. I’m ready to answer all of your questions – whatever the questions are. So, I’m ready for everything.

Lootz: “Today we have Sasha. Hey Sasha.”

Sasha: “Hi guys. I’m here.”

Lootz: “What’s up man? I’m cool.”

Sasha: “Everything is fine and we’re working. Holidays are over and we’re back to work. We have so many things to do and I’d like to share our plans for the upcoming weeks. I’m ready to answer all of your questions – whatever the questions are. So, I’m ready for everything.

Lootz: “It looks like a lot of people missed you over the holidays (laughs).”

Sasha: “I didn’t have any holiday time. I was on slack. Some people in the office had to take a rest. Now, we are back to work and we are working very hard.”

Lootz: “Since you’ve been away there’ve been quite a few ups and downs with the price. We saw it go down, so congratulations to everyone who took advantage of that…”

“So lately we’ve been seeing a lot of new people inside the Slack…”

Sasha: “Yea. New people are coming. We have a couple of new coders. We hired new coders. I’m glad that new people are coming to our slack. This is the time now when we are starting to draw more attention to our project. We have many new startups coming to our platform. They are going to crowdfund. We have several crowdfunding campaigns lined up on Waves Platform within a couple of weeks. This is the time where things are really starting to move. This is the way it should be?”

Lootz: “How’s development going? I know it slowed down a bit. Tell us about any new additions. Have you added any new people to your team?”

Sasha: “Yea. We have added a new coder, a backend coder. We are hiring a new frontend guy. I can’t say that development has slowed down. Ok, there were holidays so people had vacation for a week. But, we are moving pretty fast I think. Our goals for January are to test the DEX. We have the backend for the DEX and we have to create the frontend for the distributed exchange. After we have the frontend, we will be launching it. So, the backend is ready. It should be properly tested, and we are working on it. The concept is working and as soon as we have the front end we are going to launch the distributed exchange. Also, we are working on fiat gateways and the Bitcoin gateway. The Bitcoin gateway is going to be first, and after that we will have the Euro gateway. The Bitcoin gateway should be there by, I think in two weeks. At the same time, we will be integrating the Euro gateway. Very soon, we will have proper functionality of what you see in the wallet. Those inactive tabs – they’re going to be active. It’s just a couple of weeks, guys.”

Lootz: “Any new meet-ups or conferences you’ve attended?”

Sasha: “Yes. We are organizing lots of stuff here in Moscow. Also, I’m going to London for Bitcoin Week. I’ll be participating in the panel discussion. Maybe I will have a talk too because there are several meet ups there at the same time. I signed up for one, and I’m looking to have a presentation at another one. I’ll be meeting many people there – many partners and many projects we are working with. I think it should be quite effective. After that I’m going back to Moscow. We will be having some kind of a conference here about the status of Bitcoin here in Russia. We are inviting some people from the central bank, from Duma, from all those organizations who are in control of the situation here. They’ll be sharing their opinion about cryptocurrencies and about legalization here. I think it is very important. In the beginning of February I’ll be going to Hong Kong – at the beginning of the month. We’ll see what I’m going to do next. I’m starting to go to conferences now, so I should be promoting the Waves Platform internationally.”

Lootz: “You’re coming to New York too I think, right?”

Sasha: “Yes, I should. I’m planning to be there in March probably. I should apply for a Visa because it’s taken a couple of months. One of our guys was looking to go to the cryptography conference but he couldn’t because he wasn’t able to get a Visa in two months. After it was over, he received the Visa. So, I’m going to apply now and in a couple of months I’ll be able to go… We are also organizing many developer meet ups here. We’re having one on Friday, next week. I’m going to be talking about proof of stake and recent developments. There are a lot of misconceptions about proof of stake. People think that it’s insecure. It’s pretty secure actually and I want to explain how it works and how it can be made secure. So, we have some stuff here.”

Lootz: “The last ‘big thing’ I believe was the full node release. Has there been anything added to the full node after the release?”

Sasha: “We are tweaking the code constantly because we started with the Scorex platform, but it wasn’t really production ready. We’ve had to tweak and modify (the code). Basically, in some time, we won’t have any Scorex code left. One one hand, it enabled us to move faster. On the other hand, we’ve had to rework the code. So, there is a tradeoff here. We are tweaking the code and we are making it easier to work with. At the same time, we are working on features. Our next big feature is the DEX and fiat gateways. What is the roadmap for later? We’ll have to work on the structure of our blocks. We have to make proper block structure. We have to make a header, like what you have in Bitcoin more or less. So, we’ll be able to enable our research that was done with the Boston professor about these cryptocurrency structures. To do that, we’ll have to tweak the structure of our Waves blocks. After that, we’ll be working on scalability. We have a roadmap for scalability. At the same time, we’ll need to implement features. I can admit that we took too much time to implement what we have now. We will be more focused on business applications now and at the same time trying to implement those nice features with scalability and stuff. But now, we are more focused on business applications and features that can be implemented right here, right now.”

Lootz: “Right so speaking of business applications, say a company like Incent or Tokes wants to use the (Waves) blockchain. Is there some type of an advantage for them to run their own full node? Why would they choose to run one?”

Sasha: “They can use our nodes or any nodes from other community members, but to be in full control, it is better to have your own node.”

Lootz: “Would it increase speed?”

Sasha: “Yea sure, and you can control it. You can’t (always) trust other people’s nodes and if they go down, you can’t do anything. So, it is better that you be in control of the situation. Of course, when we have the DEX, it could make sense to have your own DEX node so you can have your own matcher. You can offer the service to people and make some additional money from offering this matching service. It’s going to have fees so you’ll be earning fees. It’s nice. Having your own node is nice and it doesn’t take much effort. It’s pretty easy now at this stage. The sooner you enter the Waves ecosystem, the better I think because you’ll understand how it works. In the future, you will probably profit from it because you’ll have more of an understanding of how it works. It is very easy to have your own full node. It is very easy to set up and to maintain.”

Lootz: “Right. And that’s 10,000 Waves tokens, which isn’t much. It’s probably 3 – 4 Bitcoin right? And you can get started now while it’s cheaper, rather than later. I think Incent has about 2 or 3 full nodes they are running. So I believe that would make them a really efficient team, right? It’ll make things run really nicely for them.”

Sasha: “Yea because Incent is going to build on the Waves DEX. They are waiting for our DEX to be launched so they can start trading their loyalty token. They have to use our tech.”

Lootz: “They are the first application on the Waves Platform and they have a customer loyalty token using the blockchain… “

“Tell me about C.A.T.’s. (Custom Application Tokens). What are the advantages? What can be done with C.A.T.’s?”

Sasha: “Many things. At this stage the most important application is of course crowdfunding campaigns, and you can use those tokens in applications like Incent. For example, Incent has C.A.T.’s functionality, and it can reward the customer with those tokens. Actually, Incent is considering different applications. They are thinking about becoming a loyalty program for ICO’s. They launched a platform for ICO’s. They offer their platform that they used for their own ICO to other projects. If you use their platform, you can also use the Incent token as a loyalty token for your ICO, which is also nice. So, there can be many applications here. What else? We have several pretty interesting projects, like, unusual projects, that are going to start crowdfunding soon. For example, we have a project that launches coworking places in several major cities in Europe and the US. So, they’re going to crowdfund for co-workings. You’ll be able to buy a pass to all the coworking places in all the cities they’re working with. It’s pretty interesting; no one did it before. It’s like, you know, crypto is coming to the real world. It’s coming to real estate and to real brick-and-mortar businesses. We also have several groups of people who want to start things like raising funds for production, and stuff like that. So, those tokens can be used for many things. The most obvious application is using them as a voucher or a token for your future product. If you have a prototype and you want to scale, or you want to launch the manufacturing to order like, 1000 gadgets or whatever, in China, at some factory. You just sell those vouchers to people, and they can swap the voucher for the product when it’s ready. So, this application is very obvious and many businesses, not only cryptocurrencies, like, brick and mortar, can go in that direction. We are talking to some, like, VC guys from a very big company … (audio cuts out for a second) … integrate Waves tokens and offer these services to like, big business and industry. For example when you have like, as I just told you, when you have a prototype and you want to scale it. Say you need 1 million dollars, and people are buying some kind of vouchers for your future product. Or, for example, some retail companies can come to Waves platform and buy the product for a huge discount. For that money, you order the production, the manufacturing, and people can buy the product with those vouchers later. There’s huge interest here. We are talking to some pretty big VC people about launching that platform. It’s going to be like Kickstarter for big businesses, or something like that. I’m not sure if we will succeed, but we will are doing our best, and that can be pretty big. “

Lootz: “So, C.A.T.’s … what does that stand for exactly? What functions can it replace in the Ethereum platform? I’ve heard you say in the past that you could do something with C.A.T.’s that Ethereum does in a more complicated way. You can do it simpler with C.A.T.’s?”

Sasha: “Custom Application Tokens, and yes. You can trade them in a decentralized way. We developed this scheme where you have centralized matching with decentralized settlement. So, in Ethereum, it is really costly to have this structure. You can’t really realize decentralized trading with Ethereum contracts because it uses up too much gas actually, and it is very costly. This approach, where you have centralized matching, and only settlement is on the blockchain is cheap. Ok, it’s more centralized, but it’s cheaper. You don’t have to send your funds to the exchange. You have your funds at all times in your wallet. The exchange is doing just the matching. You are in control of your funds at all times. So, there is a kind of centralization here, but at the same time, you don’t risk any money here. It’s a nice approach and no one did it before. Ethereum is very cool, and I realize that we need to have some kind of smart contract functionality. I am thinking how to implement it in some different way than Ethereum. People will be coming to Ethereum no matter what. No matter what happens to Ethereum; it could fork again, but people will be coming to Ethereum for that functionality – that smart contract functionality. It’s very flexible and it allows you to do things that can’t be done on other platforms. We will have to have it too. We have a couple of ideas, but it’s very far from a complete realization. At the same time, we have to decide how we will proceed with smart contracts. So, maybe at the end of the year we will have something. Obviously, a good blockchain platform has to have some kind of smart contract functionality.”

Lootz: “Nice, and Satoshi Nakamoto, that was one of his latest ideas before he disappeared. He said he wanted smart contracts and those types of features with Bitcoin. Then he disappeared and it never happened, and then Ethereum took over.”

Sasha: “Yea yea. They have scripting in Bitcoin actually. Ethereum didn’t bring any new ideas because they just used the idea of Bitcoin scripting. They just needed to complete (it) and realized this scheme where you can’t run it indefinitely. You have to pay to run the contract. Bitcoin didn’t have this. This is the achievement of Ethereum, this scheme. But, it was all already inside Bitcoin. So, it was realized in Bitcoin, in a way. So, actually, Ethereum is cool, but it doesn’t really bring any new ideas. Everything has already in Bitcoin. The ideas, maybe, they are coming. For example, what ZCash has is a new cryptography that Bitcoin didn’t have. It really brings something innovative. Ethereum is innovative too, but it has all already been in Bitcoin. Probably it makes sense to try to realize some kind of not too incomplete scripting the way it was realized in Bitcoin. There are some ways (to go) about approaching this so we’re thinking about that too. And, there are some different schemes with Turing completeness. I’m looking into various platforms now. For example, Chain platform is a very nice permissioned ledger. I really like the way it’s realized. They did (created) a very nice thing. It’s a permissioned ledger, a closed platform, but it’s really cool. So, take a look at it when you have the time. It’s called ‘Chain.’ There is also Hyper Ledger, which is also nice, and they all have this scripting. Hyper Ledger has Ethereum contracts; Chain has some other approach. We are thinking in which direction we should go in order to have some kind of blockchain scripting and blockchain smart contracts. So, we’ll have to have it too.”

Lootz: “Nice. And that’s an important feature and everything that you said earlier, that it’s in Bitcoin, I read in the ‘Book Of Satoshi.’ I just read all of that, so, it’s kind of fresh in my mind. I like to see that you’re up on your game in regards to other innovations that are coming out. You seem to constantly do your homework…”

“I have somebody in the slack. He asks, ‘Is it reasonable to run a pool of funds, community-governance, DAO-like C.A.T.?’”

Sasha: “It’s going to be feasible, yeah. We are also working on leasing now, the leasing functionality, where you can lease your funds. The forger or the miner can just use your funds to mine. So, it’s some kind of mining pool in a way. It’s just some approach to mining pools. You have to have leasing functionality in order to make proof of stake secure. People don’t really realize this usually. You can’t have very small stakes mining because, in this way, an attacker will be able to create thousands of accounts and send 10 Waves, or 10 NXT to an account and, in a way, be able to control the network. You can actually try to attack the network by doing some kind of grinding attack, and keep all the proof of stake rewards for himself. So you have to limit the minimum amount with which you can forge, or mine. You don’t allow small miners to have profits. So, in order to enable them to make some money off of the fees, you need to have this leasing functionality. So, a small account holder can lease his or her funds to a miner and have some profit from the activity of the miner. So it’s very important in this approach, for security. So, we’re going to have this type of pool – some kind of mining pool through the leasing functionality very soon. We are working on this; we have a coder who is working on this now. So, we’ll have leasing too very soon. I think it is almost ready. I want to enable people to lease not only Waves tokens, but also assets / custom tokens. That can have many nice implications actually. NXT didn’t have that for example. You could only lease NXT. I want people to be able to lease also like, custom tokens. It’s kind of interesting what can be done with this. I see lots of implications and directions where it can be used. So, we will have this functionality too. Waves leasing is kind of ready. We have to test it and we will have next token leasing.”

Lootz: “What’s the difference between the leasing functionality and regular POS (proof of stake)?”

Sasha: “It’s just a part of POS. You mine with your stake in POS systems. If you’re a small holder, if you don’t have more than 10,000 Waves at this moment, you can’t mine, forge, or make money off of the transaction fees of the network. So, you need to provide the leasing functionality for small account holders to be able to profit from the fees. So, they just lease their funds, for example 1000 Waves, to a big account and this big account shares the profits with them. They’re always in control of the funds. They can just cancel the lease and they can take the money back. The mining node can’t use the funds. They can only use them for forging. They can’t spend them. So, you are always in control of your funds, and at the same time you can make money off of transaction fees without actual mining. It’s a nice thing that is important for security of proof of stake systems. You can’t have very small accounts mining in proof of stake – you have to have some limit. This is like some kind of restriction that you have in proof of stake systems. You have to have this leasing functionality for the network security.“

Lootz: “So what you’re saying is fundraising a large pool of funds could threaten the network because the money they use can be used to stake and control the network? Doesn’t that apply to anyone doing crowdfunding on the platform?”

Sasha: “I mean, if people raise too much money, and too much Waves, yea you could have this attack, a 51% attack, in proof of stake – at this stage. So, if someone is able to have 51% of all proof of stake coins, including Waves, he could control the system. That is for sure. There are some ideas to, for example … Vitalik is writing a lot about that, about some kind of economic incentives. So, theoretically in proof of stake systems, you can even thwart 51% attacks. You could have some kind of economic finality which – this term was invented by Vitalik, I think – when even if the attacker has 90% of all stake in the network, you are still fine. You need to have some kind of big economic incentive. For example, when people are trying to mine on two forks. So, they are like supporting the attacker and they are mining on the wrong fork, they are like, banned from the network, and their stake is taken from them. So, when you see that someone is mining on two forks, or two branches of the blockchain, you just take his or her stake from him; you just fine him. So, this approach can work but we don’t have it yet. Probably we will have something like that on the way. It’s actually what the Ethereum people are trying to realize with Casper, this approach. It’s nice, because, it’s really quite sophisticated. It enables one to thwart 51% attacks even if the attacker has more than half of the total stake – the network is still fine. But, at this moment, we don’t have this approach. So, if someone is able to like, have half of all the total Waves, he can control the network. That’s true.”

Lootz: “That was actually Rick from slack. He actually is saying that his question is not about POS or leasing funds. His question was about doing a crowdfunding, and letting the C.A.T. holders decide what to do with it (raised funds). For example, could there be a charity C.A.T. that allows people who donate to decide what to do with the money?”

Sasha: “Yes, we will have voting functionality. That is why we are launching Waves Community Token / WCT. It’s going to be quite important for the ecosystem because people will be able to vote with it. If you have this token, you can vote, for example, for endorsing some projects. You can vote for many things; we will see what people are going to be voting for. But, the basic idea is to vote for the endorsement of new projects that are coming to Waves Platform. If you launch this crowdfunding token, with which you are trying to ‘make the crowdfunding’, you can also vote with it. If you saw in NXT, they have this nice voting functionality. It wasn’t really used, but it was pretty nice actually. I don’t know why people didn’t use it. [Lootz interjects saying it may have been too complicated.] Maybe, yeah, but it was nice. If you support some ICO, they’ll send you the tokens. You can, in principle, you can vote. You can have this voting for the direction where you are taking the project. So, it’s possible. It depends on your agreement between your community and the project maintainers. So, it is doable. If you say to people that ‘I’m going to crowdfund; I’m going to issue this token and you’ll be able to vote for the direction where we are taking the project’. So, I think people will be glad and they will be participating. Of course, they have to be active. Why it usually doesn’t work is because people are passive. They don’t want to be so involved in your project. They just want to, you know, flip your coin and sell, and make some like, 300% profit. They don’t want to, you know, participate. This is the tragedy of the commons. This is like, some kind of game theoretical thing. When you want people to vote for something and only people who have some agenda vote. All the other people are just passive and won’t vote. People who want to attain some specific goal? They do vote. All the other guys are just passive and don’t vote. We need to find a way I think with Waves Community Token to engage people in the community, to make them be more engaged, and to monitor the new projects which are coming to Waves Platform, to endorse them, and to actually profit from new ICO’s even if they don’t send them any money. Because, if they endorse it, the idea is new projects will be happy to send some tokens over to the Waves community and they will be distributed among the Waves Community Token holders. So you just have to hold the token; you don’t have to invest in any ICO’s, but you will still be getting some profits from the new ICO’s on the Waves Platform.”

Lootz: “This is kind of like NXT Venture. Back in the day, there was an NXT asset called NXT Venture that did kind of the same thing. Over time, people stopped using it … but you’re saying there is going to be some kind of voting function that uses it (WCT) so that might increase it’s warranty and it’s utility.”

“So the voting feature could be used independently by tokens. You also mentioned crowdfunding. Will there be a website that people could start their crowdfunding on?”

Sasha: “Yea. We are talking to several like, working crowdfunding platforms and we are talking to several groups of people who want to make their own platform. Something is going to materialize very soon. We need to have this Kickstarter-like website that has tokens. We have this product thing that I told you about – this thing where factories can crowdfund for new products. We have to have, like, a normal Kickstarter approach where startups can announce their project, and can issue some kind of token that are used within their project. For example, a social network launches an internal currency and they sell it to investors. It can be used later within the network. It should be also done in a centralized way. We have to have some web platform where people can do it easily. Of course, probably, it’s not our thing. It should be built on top of Waves. So, we are working with a couple groups of people who want to do that. If you think we should do that on our own, we’ll do this web platform, it is not a problem. But, it is better if we have someone to support, maintain, and launch it because, you know, it should be a third party project. So, it’s going to be launched, definitely, and it should be pretty important for Waves and the whole ecosystem. You don’t have this platform – you don’t have Kickstarter with coins, or tokens, yet. When it’s there, it can change everything, I think. You’ll have this new degree of freedom where you can just exit your pledge and you can sell your pledge. In Kickstarter, when you pledge your funds, you can’t sell it to anyone. You are just waiting for the product.”

Lootz: “I think StartCoin, or StartJoin, is something like that?”

Sasha: “Yea but they used only StartCoins to crowdfund I think. We want to have a platform where you can just spend your dollar, and euros, and everything you’ve got. You don’t need to use the Waves tokens. It is launched on Waves; you have Waves tokens, but it can be sold for everything. We’ll have gateways. We’ll have USD token, Euro token, and Bitcoin token. On the web platform, you’ll be able to spend your fiat money directly. So, it doesn’t have to be Waves.”

Lootz: “So, give me a timeline for those gateways. What’s coming out first? Bitcoin gateway?”

Sasha: “Bitcoin gateway is the simplest. We’re going to revive for this, Coinomat – the Coinomat Project – which was dormant for a couple of months. But, it is time to revive it I think. The Bitcoin gateway will be realized in partnership with Coinomat. It’s not my project at this stage; there’s another coder there. He’s back to work and they have a new team. Bitcoin will be supported through Coinomat at this stage. Later we will probably have to work with different exchanges to create some kind of multi-signature account where, for example, several exchanges can control all the Bitcoins that are within the Waves ecosystem. It’s very easy because this thing was done for NXT. We have this plugin in NXT with Coinomat. It was exactly what we want to have now in Waves. So, Bitcoin is very easy. At the same time, we have a company, a payment system, which is going to support Euro and a little later, it will support USD – in the spring probably. Euro is coming soon. Euro and Bitcoin is coming really soon. We’ll see how it works, because, we should see how it works in general and if there any issues? When it’s all-good, we can probably outsource it to like, bigger companies if they’re interested -I hope they will – and perhaps to a bigger payment system that will be supporting and maintaining fiat currencies on Waves Platform. But for now, I think to test things out we should be in control of those gateways. When it’s all ready, we will outsource it to bigger companies.

Lootz: “Any idea about a Canadian gateway? Is there a Canadian gateway?”

Sasha: “Yea Canadian is doable because you don’t have as many regulations in Canada. So, it’s just a matter of prioritization; what you should do first, and what should come next. The Canadian dollar is easier than the USD dollar to implement here so, we’ll have it. We’ll probably have to do something with the Yuan first, and of course US dollar.”

Lootz: “You mentioned Coinomat. Do the holders of Coinomat get dividends or rewards from the transactions they do?”

Sasha: “Yea sure. It’s going to be a for-profit project for Coinomat at this stage. They won’t charge much, but they’ll charge something of course. It’s like, 1% at the most. Not more, and maybe less, or perhaps a flat fee. So, the idea is to use the functionality we used for NXT and revive the project at the same time because I think it was a nice project. It was the first instant cryptocurrency exchange. Actually, it was before ShapeShift. So, like, ShapeShift came later, so Coinomat was really the first instant cryptocurrency exchanger. So I think we shouldn’t let it go away. We should make it work again.”

Lootz: “I think ShapeShift is having issues at the moment right?”

Sasha: “Probably. I don’t really follow them but … Ok, they’re a very nice project actually. They did some things better than we did and they had more money for promotion. There’s no bad blood here, but I think that Coinomat should come back and should work again. We’ll make Coinomat great again.”

Lootz: “Will we be able to trade alt-coins through the multigateways?”

Sasha: “Yea. I think that many alt-coins are becoming important now. We have Ethereum… I like Litecoin now because Litecoin is back to life. They implemented the features that Bitcoin can’t implement. I think Litecoin can have the Lightning Network sooner than Bitcoin, and that can be pretty big. The Litecoin founder, Charlie Lee, is very active. He’s pushing Litecoin everywhere. I think that there can be something pretty interesting there. So probably we’ll have Litecoin, Ethereum, and maybe some other coins within Waves Wallet.”

Lootz: “Lately I’ve been seeing SysCoin (System Coin)…

Sasha: “Yea I have to look into it. They were focused on some kind of like, decentralized marketplace.

Lootz: “It’s a little bit different than OpenBazaar. There’s no down time. If your server drops, your stuff won’t come off the market. It’s a decentralized market place basically but they also have escrow system built in. People who want to be arbiters can handle the escrow. They can make some money being an arbiter in the system. It’s all built into the system. There are actually very skilled coders on that team. Take a look when you get the chance.”

Sasha: “Yea I remember that they wanted to implement tokens too, but then they made a pivot and became focused on the marketplace. But, we’re working with everybody that wants to work with us. So, we’re very open to cooperation. Everybody that knows me knows that I am always ready to talk and cooperate with people. If someone wants to work with us, we want to work with you guys. So, come to Waves Platform and let’s cooperate.

Lootz: “The way I see it … there are so many different niches and so many different technologies. Maybe one day, when you’ve got this great engine, and this great muffler, a great exhaust system, and you’ve got somebody building some great wheels … Maybe a few years down the road we’re going to have some type of Ferrari system where they’ll all work together.” (It’s an analogy comparing the crypto ecosystem with the time and care that goes into making a luxury sports car.)

Sasha: “Yea it takes time but once it’s done, it can be big.”

Lootz: “Talk to me about transaction times. What’s the plan? Is the rumor true that it will compete with central exchanges like Polo?

Sasha: “It should, yea. If you have centralized matching, it can be as fast as any centralized exchange. The settlement takes time, but the orders are matched very fast so you can see that your order is executed. You have to wait for the actual settlement, but you have your order executed. So, it can be fast. If we have some issues with like, throughput, we have a roadmap for throughput too. It’s not a secret actually; I want to implement Bitcoin NG for proof of stake system. Bitcoin NG is some kind of approach that allows you to like … it can also be implemented in Bitcoin. You have like key blocks, and you have like, small blocks between them. So, the miner that generates the key block can keep generating new blocks until the new key block arrives. So, the miner doesn’t have to wait for 10 minute like in Bitcoin, for the new block. He can keep generating the blocks. It’s called Bitcoin NG. It allows the use of mining power more efficiently and of course, it improves the throughput. You can increase throughput like … I don’t know how many times, it’s hard to say, but you can have around 100 transactions per second or even more, up to 1,000. You have to wait for the finalization, but at the same time, you can push more transactions into the network. It can be realized for a proof of stake system. I don’t see any reason not to do that after we have more features. Like, when we have gateways, we have DEX, and the load of the network is pretty big, we will have to realize this throughput enhancement that will allows us to have a thousand transactions per minute. I don’t think it will be a thousand transactions per second, but up to 1,000 is doable I think with this approach. We will have to realize that thing that we have been working on with Leonid, the professor from Boston, that allows us to have a smaller local database. That is going to allow miners to process transactions faster. You don’t have to store all of the blockchain data. It can be big too, and no one did it before either. These combinations of two approaches, of like, the authenticated data structures approach that allows the reduction of the load on the local node, and the Bitcoin NG approach, that allows the pushing of more transactions into the blockchain. This combination is going to allow us to have a very robust and productive system. If we are able to put some type of smart contract functionality on top of that, it’s going to be a very versatile and very complete system. So, this is our goal. I realize that you do need to have contracts, and now I’m looking for ways to make this functionality as fast as possible, and as useful as possible. So, we’ll have contracts too. Now, we have to add featuresm like, more features. We have to have gateways, and we have to have the DEX. Basically we want to have everything that we promised, everything that you can see in our wallet. All those inactive tabs, they have to become active. This is our goal for the next several months.”

Lootz: “Can you explain the idea behind improving authenticated dynamic dictionaries and how it could be used? Is this unique to Waves?”

Sasha: “Yes it can be used anywhere. For example, the Cardano system – it’s from IOHK. Charles Hoskinson is the leader there and they are trying to use this too, because it is open source. Of course, it can be used by anybody. So, the idea here is to allow miners not too store all the data. For example, imagine that you have 1,000 assets, or 10,000 assets – 10,000 different tokens in the network. You can’t really store all the transaction data for all the tokens. You care only about, for example, the token that you issued, but you still need to verify all the blocks if you are mining or if you are just using the system. You have to verify all the blocks. But, in order to do that, you have to have the full transaction history. This authenticated data structure approach allows you not to have the full transaction history, but store only some kind of digest of the history, and you can use this digest to verify the transactions. There is some like, cryptographical proof that you have to store locally. You don’t have to store the transaction data; you only need to store this proof. You can verify all the transactions in tokens that you don’t really care about using this proof. You still have to verify the blocks. So you need to verify all transactions, even for tokens that you don’t really have any use for. In order to be able to verify it efficiently, you need to have those proofs, which are pretty small. You don’t need to store all of the data, and you can verify it really fast. It can be used also for the native token for Waves. Potentially it can be in any kind of cryptocurrency, also for Bitcoin probably. It is a very interesting approach. The idea here is not to store all of the transaction data, but to store some kind of merkle tree. This also comes from Bitcoin. This merkle tree approach is some kind of enhancement of the merkle tree. You store this merkle tree and you can verify all of the transactions using this merkle tree structure and not the full data. This is an approach that is really useful for scalability, and it will be used by many systems, I’m sure.”

Lootz: “The only problem is that when a decision needs to be made on Bitcoin, you need a full consensus from everybody. Is there going to be some kind of consensus with Waves or is it going to be like you know, a group, that will help make decisions in the future?”

Sasha: “I think that my idea is to use the whole community. So, Waves Community Token is made especially for this. You can reach out to your community and ask them to vet some projects or to decide on something. We will see how it works, but the idea is to have this voting token. It is very important, so everybody can have it. Everybody who wants to participate can participate. We will have some kind of board I think, some kind of foundation, further along the way I think. This year, within half a year, we will have a standard structure, a foundation, which decides on the general direction of Waves Platform development. Now, I’m talking to many people now so it is kind of complicated. I just want to kickstart the business side of the project and have more startups coming to us. They need to start crowdfunding with us. Those kinds of organizational things can wait. We need to move faster now. We had some issues with slow development so we need to catch up and start moving faster. All of that bureaucracy can slow us down. My goal now is to make the business side really work.”

Lootz: “This Waves Community Token, that’s what WCT is, this token comes out today or tomorrow?”

Sasha: “Tomorrow, yea, during office hours. So like, when people are in the office, we will launch it. So, I think in 12 hours or so. It’s 2AM now, here, so, I’m going to be in the office in about 8 hours. When people are there in about 10 to 12 hours, we will distribute the token to all the people who have their Waves out of exchanges. If you have your Waves tokens at some exchange, at Bittrex for example, you don’t receive the community token.”

Lootz: “The first distribution is going to be 20%, and then for the next 9 months, it’s going to be 10% every month. The way it works is, between the 16th and the 15th of next month, there are going to be snapshots taken. This initial one was only 15 days.”

Sasha: “Yea, yea, 15 days and the next distribution will use monthly snapshots. So, you will have daily snapshots during the month, and then you just average out. So you make some average balance in the snapshots that were taken during the last month, and you have some average balance distribution. Then you send the tokens out according to it.

Lootz: “It sounds really important for community members to be holding WCT to my understanding.”

Sasha: “Yea it can be important. It is a kind of DAO functionality more or less – like a secure DAO where you don’t run any fancy smart contracts that can fail, and you just use your tokens to vote. Those projects that want to distribute their ICO tokens to Waves community send them to the maintainers, and we distribute it to the whole community. When we have smart contracts that can be like, streamlined, we can have more or less a proper DAO further along the way.”

Lootz: “Ok. So you can profit through new assets. You can have voting rights. I heard a little rumor that you had Byteballs sent to your account – your escrow account – your Bitcoin account, and you’re going to be distributing them through WCT?

Sasha: “Yea sure. It was thanks to Paul. Maybe you know him from slack? He’s an Austrian guy. He’s very active on BitcoinTalk and he’s doing this all the time. He’s been our escrow, and he’s been escrowing several other projects. He offered this (participating in the Byteball distribution). I didn’t keep an eye on it, but, why not. You just sign a message using the private key from the ICO funds, or some part of it, and you can have some Byteballs. They were doing some type of airdrop; you don’t have to spend any actual money. You just have to sign the message with your private key. You get those Byteballs in return. So, why not? I think it was pretty nice; use some part of funds, not all of them of course because probably it could cause some drama if we did that. So we used like, 20% I think of the total funds to sign the message. It worked pretty nice so, the Byteballs have been sold, and we have like 35 Bitcoins from this. We’ll distribute it as a Bitcoin token to all the Waves Community holders. It should be nice. I think it’s like, we can’t do it regularly because there aren’t so many ICO’s like that, but, why not? We didn’t spend any money and it’s like, money for free. We don’t need it of course because we have ICO funds, but I think it will be nice for the community to have those tokens.”

Lootz: “Very awesome man. So, you’d better hold onto them because, you know, who knows in the future what other things pop up that he (Sasha) might want to share.”

Sasha: “Yea, sure, and if some other airdrops are coming along on our way, why not? We could use those funds because we are not burning much funds. It’s like, 50,000 dollars per month, or 60 maybe. We’ll have money for development for years to come.”

Lootz: I heard you guys have a new Wiki page? It was set up by Evelina?

Sasha: “Yea, Evelina. She is our public relations girl. She’s very smart, and she’s cool. She’s a hard worker so she’s good. She’s working on communications and the Wikipedia page should be there. You mean like, the main Wikipedia – the English language article right? Because there was some like, drama with Russian Wikipedia when they didn’t want to have Waves and then they realize they needed to have Waves (laughs). So people are starting to know us so, soon everybody is going to know what Waves is.

Lootz: “Ok. I think I’m pretty much done with my own questions. I have a couple more on my list, and then we’ll get to the community questions.”

“There are rumors that you’ve been in touch with many interested industries, but people say they never hear anything about them. Could you shed some light?”

Sasha: “Yea let me describe some groups of people. I can’t reveal all of the information yet, but I’m talking to some pretty big VC guys – well, they’re not really VC, but they are like, big guys – about some kind of industry platform for factories. I told you about it like, 20 minutes ago. Also I am talking to some banking group. They want to implement some kind of permissioned blockchain system for some kind of bank cooperative where they can sell their credit portfolios. So, you could sell, or buy, some kind of portfolio of credits that were issued by some banks. It’s like what people did during the mortgage crisis, but more efficiently. So, when they were selling packages of bad loans and banks didn’t realize that those packages were bad. Everybody thought that if you could average like 1,000 loans out, and you package them, it becomes like, secure. It’s not like that. You need to be able to select all those loans and buy them individually. We want to implement this system, and it can be pretty big. So, it can be like some kind of permissioned version of Waves Platform for banks. So, we’re in the initial stages. We are writing technical assignments now but it’s ok. I think they’re very interested and it is pretty probable that we are going to implement this system. So, we have this, and we have a platform for big businesses to crowdfund for their manufacturing. I’m talking to many payment systems and startups.” (Sasha’s audio cuts out.)

“Guys, I am back. Sorry, I had some issues with my connection. Can you hear me? I had to move to another room to use the electricity because my laptop is almost dead, and there is some wifi problem. It is ok now.”

“So, I was talking about the projects we are talking to. We have lots of things like from all walks of life. I’m even talking to some political party here. They want to build a political platform for their party on the blockchain. So, there are very many things. I’m not sure if it’s going to materialize, but something will materialize. I am talking to startups that want to crowdfund and there are very many interesting things there.

Lootz: “What kind of start ups?”

Sasha: “Cryptocurrency and also brick and mortar stuff. There is like, a factory that wants to crowdfund for like, a factory that produces some kind of metal. It is interesting; maybe I will talk about it a little later. They’re going to announce it next week I think. It’s interesting; nobody has done it before actually. You’ll be surprised.

Lootz: “Everyone knows my favorite metal. It’s silver.”

Sasha: “It’s not silver, but it’s close. It’s some kind of more industrial metal. What else? There is a lot of interest in real estate projects. So, people either want to raise money for building new real estate, or for buying apartments, renting them out, and sharing the profits – several groups of people. One group is ready to launch; I talked about them (during this interview) an hour ago probably. They have one coworking (building) in Amsterdam. They want to scale, and have several coworking places. It is more like a technical hub. You can go there and you can rent an office like, immediately. You go there with your team, and they set you up within a day. You’ll have several desks, Internet, and everything. It’s your own office room and you can start working. So, it’s a very nice thing. It’s pretty useful. If you know WeWork for example, it is a huge company with a capitalization of 15 billion dollars. Their valuation is around 15 billion dollars – WeWork. This is a huge business actually, and they want to raise money for scaling of their coworking place network. You’ll be able to buy some kind of token that allows you to use all of their facilities, all over the world, forever. You just buy it once, and you can use any place that they have, forever. It’s a new way to raise money for business, I think. You sell some kind of voucher that you can use to buy your product when it’s ready. It’s a very nice thing. So, we have this real estate start up. We have this factory start up. We have several more traditional startups like in cryptocurrency that are going to be launching soon. We are talking to like, many normal businesses – to some kind of industry guys who want to make this crowdfunding platform for factories, and to those banking guys. I’m meeting with like 3 to 5 different groups of people each day actually. So, there’s lots of action here, and something is going to materialize very soon. ”

Lootz: “Is Waves capable of being used as a point of sale, feasibly?”

Sasha: “Yes, with a mobile application. We are launching the mobile application soon. We had this done before the New Year, but we had to rework it. The design wasn’t the best one, so it took us a little longer, but it’s almost ready. It’s going to be an application for both android and iOS, and then we will have like, native applications. We are working on native applications too now. And, it can be used as point of sale of course. So, you have the application as a seller. You just generate a QR code. Then the buyer can just scan the QR code and pay to your address. So, it’s easy and we plan to have those fiat tokens, which makes things really nice. You can pay not only in Bitcoin, because you can pay with Bitcoin like that probably already, but you’ll be able to pay in fiat money like that, just by QR code. So everybody will be able to accept payments on the blockchain using their mobile phone.”

Lootz: “When we are able to test the DEX, will the UI (user interface) be on the test-net?”

Sasha: “Sure, yea, absolutely. We’ll have to test for some time on the test-net because no one did it and there can be some bugs obviously. So, we will have it on the test-net first. The front-end is really needed because we have very many frontend tests and we need another coder for this. We’ll be hiring another coder for the frontend and especially for the DEX – next week – and he will be focused on the DEX development, on the DEX frontend. After that, we’ll have it on the test-net with frontend, and people will be testing it for a while. Since the backend is ready, it shouldn’t take us too long.”

Lootz: “Is there any solution with implementing 2FA or UTF-8?”

Sasha: “Hawky is a guy from slack. He is a German professor. He’s working on 2FA. That approach that we realized at the hackathon, it was faulty. There was some kind of an attack that we overlooked, but we found it on our own. We have to rework it a little. He claims that he found a new way to make it secure, so we will be working on that too. It’s always like that because, when you think that you implement something, but then you find a bug there and you have to tweak it… but eventually we will have it. Now, the focus is on the DEX, on leasing, and on the fiat gateways because it should be more useful and business oriented and people can use it immediately. 2FA can wait a little.

Lootz: “I think someone here is looking to be in your employ. What skills do you need for a frontend coder? JavaScript? J-query? Bootstrap? Angular?”

Sasha: “Yea, Angular and JS, and be like, an expert, and have several years of experience; we are looking for top coders now. There can be problems with Bitcoin and blockchain because there are not so many coders who know what Bitcoin is or what blockchains are. With like normal JS development, we select only the best people of course, because we have money and there are many people who are doing JS and frontend development. We need only the best people here.

Lootz: “Early working versions will be released to the main-net aiming for the end of Q1? I think he means a full-featured DEX.”

Sasha: “Yea, the backend is ready. If someone wants to test it out, please do, because the code is ready. So, everybody is welcome. It’s not so comfortable to test it without the frontend because the DEX frontend is pretty important. You can test it ten times faster when you have a good frontend. But, it can be tested through API and if someone wants to help out, we will be happy to use your help. So, please take a look at our DEX which is on GitHub.”

Lootz: “Say I buy a Waves asset such as Incent. This is bought with Waves. If I am forging Waves, are the Waves I spent to buy Incent included in the weight of my forging?

Sasha: “No because you actually sent them to the previous owner of your Incent tokens. So, he can forge with your tokens. If you trade them, so, say you only sent an order to the exchange; you can forge. You can forge with those funds, yes. If you already bought Incent tokens, you can’t forge because your counterparty, the person you bought them from, can forge with them. ”

Lootz: “Can you give me a little more about token forging? If there’s a proof of stake coin out there and they’re not doing very well, is it possible for them to come on to the tokens platform and utilize the Waves Platform? Can they utilize your blockchain to forge proof of stake like they are normally? So, instead of being separate in the economy of coins, have them join the Waves Platform, and maybe their coin that is not a success (currently) can be a success by coming to a community?”

Sasha: “You mean they need to forge it… they need to generate new coins? Or they just want to export their coin to a new blockchain?

Lootz: “So basically, they do a trade to themselves. So, they create a new token of their coin on the Waves Platform, and then they have everybody trade it; they do an exchange. Then, you said that assets, or tokens, would be forgeable, right?”

Sasha: “Ah… yea, they will be leasable. You can lease them; this is the idea. If you need to have asset forging, it is doable. But, you need to realize why – why do we need this? What is the business application? Why do you need to forge new tokens? If someone proposes some clear plan as to why we need this, we will implement this, because it’s easy. As far as I understand, in NXT, they had this monetary system and they had something similar. So, there were like, mineable coins there, but nobody actually mined them. So, I’m not really sure if it’s useable.”

Lootz: “I read that there are still a lot of Waves in the ICO website? What do you think about funding a node with a percentage of those Waves, and possibly distributing the rewards to WCT holders?”

Sasha: “That is a good idea actually. We don’t (necessarily) want to do that because we don’t want to have a node that has the majority of all the mining power because people don’t really mine with more than like 300,000 at the moment. If we put our entire developers’ share of Waves tokens there, we’ll be mining all the blocks. But, we could add to it gradually and we can raise our mining stake. It’s a good idea, yea. Eventually we could use all of our developer funds to mine and it can of course be distributed to all the WCT holders.”

Lootz: “Do you think that the current Waves valuation of $22 million USD is justified? What valuation would you give your own platform?”

Sasha: “We are starting out, but it’s okay. It can be bigger or smaller; it’s not so important at this stage. Our goal here would probably be 100 million by the end of this year. I think it’s doable, and we can achieve that if we realize all of the features. If there is a working ecosystem where people can raise funds and people can achieve their business goals, our capitalization should be around 100 million by the end of the year, I think. At this stage, it’s ok; it doesn’t matter. We are just launching all the functionality and we’re still in the initial stages of our development. So, this capitalization is ok.”

Lootz: “Looks like we have a marathon runner in our ecosystem here – in our community. He says, ‘I’m going to run the marathon in Rotterdam in April. There are one million people standing and cheering on the sidewalk. How cool would it be if Sasha would be my running shirt sponsor and one million people would see my Waves running shirt?’”

Sasha: “It’s doable; let him contact me. And, we have Guy Brandon, Cassius on slack, who is also a marathon runner. He’s running marathons regularly. So, you can team up with him (laughs). I don’t know if he’s going to be in Holland for the marathon but you can ask him. We could have Waves Team actually because many people are running. I ran before, I don’t run now, but I always liked running.”

Lootz: “Previously the DEX and fiat gateways were to be released by the end of January. Is this still on track?”

Sasha: “Yes, it’s on track, because we have the backend (finished). Please help us test it. We will test it tomorrow too, but if you help us test it’s going to be nice. As soon as we have the frontend, it can be released. So, yea, we are on track.”

Lootz: “You’ll be speaking at the upcoming Blockchain Week in London as part of a four person group. Will you be speaking elsewhere during this time period?”

Sasha: “Yea. I’m just trying to have a presentation at another conference there. I don’t know if I’ll be able to because we applied a little too late, but I’ll do my best. In any case, it’s going to be useful because I am meeting with several people there already. So, it should be useful, and probably I will talk to another conference too.”

Lootz: “Have you worked out any tentative partnerships with U.S.-based marketing firms to help push Waves into the mainstream?”

Sasha: “With U.S.-based… not yet. I think that we are good with our own team. If we need it, we will do it, but I think that our team is pretty effective. We proved that we were efficient at the ICO because we raised lots of money. We are efficient guys. So, the focus now should be on the product. As soon as we have the product, marketing will be quite easy, I think, because we will be able to push the product really efficiently. Of course, we can work with some third party public relations and promotions firms because we do it already. We contact many journalists and media outlets; we cooperate with them. So, yea, but to outsource all of the marketing to some PR agency, we won’t do that. I don’t think it’s useful. People don’t really feel this business I think. Not many PR agencies are focused on cryptocurrencies. We have this agency actually. We have so many people now in PR so we have this agency in our office, in-house. So we’ll be the most efficient cryptocurrency public relations agency that exists.”

Lootz: “I’d like to explain a little also. People keep pushing for marketing, but marketing people out there have no idea what crypto is either. So, when they try to explain it to the world, it’ll be like having your mom try to explain it to the world. It’s better to have someone like Evalina in-house who understands what crypto is, and then can explain it and put it in a nice Forbes article, and put it out there. That’s a better tactic than getting somebody who promises you the world, but at the end of the day they really don’t understand even what you’re doing.“

Sasha: “Yea. We understand the business, we understand the arena, we understand the ecosystem, and we have the best people I think who have been here (in crypto) for years. They saw everything and they know how it works. So many cool people are on our team. Guy Brandon is a great writer and he understands crypto. Martin, MX, who is very deep into community management and understands how it all works with the community. All of the other guys, they are very good too. “

Lootz: “The best marketing, and I tried saying this earlier… the best marketing that people can do is to help themselves. So, if you’re invested in Waves, 1 tweet a day – the slack has 2200 people – 1 tweet a day will do it better than any marketing firm out there. Some people go ‘why should I tweet’ and I think, personally, I got a little angry the other day when I saw that. It’s not like you have to do anything. You only have to push a button. ‘Click here, tweet, done.’ (sic.) It’s not like were asking you to write and essay. I mean, it’s your coin and you’re invested in it; why not help promote it? Ethereum, they got big because of their community. There were so many people excited and involved, and invested. The marketing came mostly from the community. It didn’t come from a marketing firm.”

Sasha: “Yea. You can’t just tell some marketing firm, ‘Guys, please promote us and make our market capitalization 100 million, or 1 billion dollars.’ They won’t do anything; it’s useless because they don’t understand. You can ask them to do some particular or some specific thing like, you know, publishing in some specific magazine or writing some specific article, but you can’t ask them to like, promote us and make us … it doesn’t work like that. We are in a very new arena and no one understands it better than us. So, you have to realize that. So, we are marketers and we are coders at the same time. We create the architecture and we market our system; we do everything. This is the only way to proceed and to succeed here. Our community is the integral part of our success. If you are able to help us tweet or promote, you’ll help yourself too guys. Help us help you.”

Lootz: “It’s important that you get excited. You’ve got to go out there and say, ‘I’m invested in this. You know why? It’s because it has a DEX coming out, it’s going to have fiat gateways. Who knows, it could have a like, BitPay card on it, and my mom’s going to use it!’ I’m joking but, you know, that’s how Ethereum moved hard. I mean you see Amazon books on Ethereum. Go to audible; there are audio books on Ethereum. There are Amazon videos about Ethereum. I see it everywhere, and this is why it’s very popular. These are just people doing it! Ethereum didn’t pay them to do that. It’s the community that does it.”

“Could you explain more about authenticated dynamic dictionaries in contrast with how Ethereum plans to implement scalability changes? Have you sought out actual Ethereum plans to implement scalability changes?”

Sasha: “I think they want to do sharding, but they are very far from any actual code. Sharding is probably very complicated, much more complicated than anything we plan to do. I don’t know when it can work. Sharding is like … you break your blockchain into several pieces. One part of the network maintains one piece, and another maintains another piece and there is some interaction. It is very complicated, and it’s all very conceptual at this stage. It doesn’t have any substance yet. If they do it, they are going to be heroes. They are going to rock because you’ll be able to run the whole Ethereum network on 10,000 Raspberry Pi’s. It’s true, but we’re pretty far away from it. So, if they do it, they’re going to be like heroes. If they don’t, ok … this is what they are trying to do, or at least from my understanding, that’s what they are trying to do – to implement this sharding approach and Casper, their proof of stake system, which is very nice. They have really nice ideas behind it like, incentives and the economic finality. Although those things are nice, it’s pretty far from actual implementation too. So, we are trying to move a little faster. Of course, Ethereum has smart contracts. They are important, but we’ll find a way I think to have something similar too.”

Lootz: “There’s been discussion in the slack about potential issues regarding duplicate asset names. A common rebuttal is that the buyer can check the Asset ID which are non duplicable. However, the common end user of the DEX probably will not know to do this during their first few trades. What are your plans to rectify this potentially bad situation? For instance, will there be a way to verify assets sort of like how Twitter verifies accounts?”

Sasha: “Of course it is doable because we control the front end. We can really filter some bad players out. It is doable. We chose this approach where you have unique ID’s but you don’t have unique names. Actually, we have some ideas where you can have other types of assets that can have unique names and have some additional functionality. From my experience in NXT, this thing didn’t really cause any big problems because people were always able to check the validity of the asset. You can see for example, by the order book, if there is some active trading. This is the real asset. You can of course filter bad assets all on the frontend level. Ok, we’ll be able to cope with this situation. I don’t think it is a big problem because, in NXT, it wasn’t a big problem. I don’t think it’ll be a big problem here.”

Lootz: “I think I heard of a way of doing it with SSL certificates. I think Coin Prism was doing that – the guy who made the colored coin. He was using SSL certificates. You might want to check that out. Right in the browser you could verify if something was real or not.”

Sasha: “You can do anything. In the frontend, you can do anything because, of course, there is some centralization here. For example, it can query or send a request to some centralized service and it can verify the validity of a given asset. It’s not a big issue.”

Lootz: “In regards to gateways, will there be general code that one could utilize to develop their own crypto gateways? For instance, BCDEV is working on his own Doge Coin gateway.

Sasha: “Yea, it’s like a prototype. You can build on it, sure. It’s a good code. It’s not complicated because it just uses API. Anyone can build a gateway. So you can already build a gateway for any currency, for Ethereum, for Bitcoin – it’s not complicated. You can do it and you can … (audio cuts out briefly) … Waves tokens that are tied to Ethereum, or Bitcoin, or whatever. So, it’s very doable.

Lootz: “Ah, very cool. You just have to be trusting of the person creating it.”

(Sasha disconnects for a brief period of time.)

Sasha: “I’m back, guys. Something is wrong with my Wifi connection but I’m back.

Lootz: “Cool we’re almost done man. I skipped a few of the questions because they were starting to get repetitive…”

“Anybody can create a gateway, but be careful of where you’re downloading the code right?

Sasha: Absolutely. You can write your own code; it’s not complicated at all.

Lootz: Yea so if you guys get code from anywhere, just be careful. I’ve downloaded a lot of applications from various places and there were a lot of viruses. So, you’ve got to be careful where you download the code from.”

Sasha: We had this problem with the Lite Client. Someone (copied the code and) put a virus in our Lite Client. They had it installed on several machines. Some Waves have been stolen actually. So, please be careful guys. Don’t forget that our Lite Client is just a plug in for Chrome. It’s not an executable. It’s not any kind of file that you can run on your machine. It is just a plug in for Chrome. It should only be downloaded from the Google Chrome store.

Lootz: “BCDEV is pretty cool. If you use something of his, he’ll probably tell you to get it directly from his GitHub.”

“So the next question. You had previously said that Coinomat would be transferable to the Waves Platform. When do you anticipate this swap will occur?”

Sasha: “The asset, yea, we will want to implement this Bitcoin gateway functionality on Coinomat and at the same time, we can do the swap. We have to think a little about how we’ll do the actual swap and how we’ll try to develop Coinomat further. We have to talk to the Coinomat people further because they will attract a bigger payment system that is interested in supporting Waves gateways, and they will be buying Coinomat I think. I think they will buy Coinomat as a project and they will use the technology. There is some payment system in Europe with a proper license that is interested in cooperating with Waves. So, we’ll see how it goes, but in any case, Coinomat is going to be relaunched. The Coinomat assets will be used, and of course, they won’t be just cancelled. Coinomat will live on and Coinomat assets will be also live and active.”

Lootz: “So when are we getting on Polo? … I’m joking don’t answer that [laughs.]”

Sasha: “Polo, yea. I’ve talked to Tristan and he didn’t even replied to me [1:44:34] but ok. I should write him again, yea. It’s ok; I don’t mind. Polo… we are working with another exchange now. It’s a new exchange that will be focused on Waves. It’s a centralized exchange. We support this project, but it’s not ours. It’s a third party project, but we support it. They will have a very deep Waves integration. My idea is to have a closed ecosystem. We can let anybody enter our system, yea, but we have to be self-contained and we have to have everything. We have to have our exchange, our gateways – everything. So, we have to be self-contained. We have to offer a complete solution where you can do everything you want so that we don’t have to depend on any third parties. They (third parties) have their own ideas and their own strategy. So, we want to be self-contained and we are working on that. This is our goal: to have a complete cryptocurrency ecosystem in which you can do anything you need and you don’t have to go outside of it for some services. You can obtain all the services you need within the system.

Lootz: “Ok cool. … This is a good one. ‘Has Sasha been talking with the MVP Lineup team? They were the first Waves token crowdsale but they may not launch on Waves because they promised dividends to the token holders.’”

Sasha: “Yea. As far as I understand, they wanted to do some kind of buyback. They didn’t issue Waves tokens. They didn’t have it. They had the web platform and they had balances. They contacted me recently and they wanted to issue a Waves token in order to buy it back from investors. It’s a little bit tricky actually; maybe I didn’t understand everything. They want to go the usual VC way, as far as I understood, and they want just to be able to just buy back the ICO investment from investors. So, to do that they want to issue a Waves token and in some way buy it back from investors. This is what I heard from them, but it’s not finalized yet. They want to do it, and I think they are legit. I’ve known them for a couple of year, so they’re legit and it’s not a problem. If they want to do it for some specific thing, to do some buy back, why not? They can use Waves tokens in any way they want.”

Lootz: “I know BitcoinDarkDev, BTCDDev, he’s a good friend of mine. If he’s on the project, I trust it.”

“Can we test the GUI DEX in the Lite Client on the test-net?

Sasha: “Not yet guys. We are working on it. It’s pretty complicated. It’s probably the most complicated GUI part that we’ve had to date. As far as we understand, all of these exchange interfaces, they are pretty complicated. We have to do it neatly. We have to keep it really useful, and handy. So, it takes time because we have to focus on usability here. It will take some time, but we are working on the frontend. You can test the backend now using the API. You can install the DEX code in your server and test it. It’s not a problem. The frontend is on the way.”

Lootz: “Can you compare and contrast with Ethereum POS tech and Waves POS tech?”

Sasha: “Yea. POS tech in Ethereum is more like a concept. They do have some code as far as I understand but it’s more or less like test code. They just test some parameters. It’s pretty far from realization – at least a year. It is very ambitious. Casper is a very ambitious system. It is not the usual POS system. It is more like Tendermint if you know Tendermint. There’s some kind of consensus system. They don’t do actual forging; it’s more like consensus. If you fail to provide or play along, you are like, fined for it. They take your stake. So you have to bet/ gamble some of your stake in order to support the network. It’s pretty complicated. You can read about Casper; it’s a nice approach. In my opinion, it’s pretty far from completion from some actual working production system. It’s very different from the usual POS. It’s more or less like a consensus algorithm. Tendermint, for example, is pretty close to what Casper is going to be.”

Lootz: What was that? Tendermint?

Sasha: “Tendermint, yea. There are a couple of Ethereum guys in it. They’re in Switzerland I think. They have been working with Vitalik and Vlad Zamfir on POS. Tendermint it is called. Casper is not like Peercoin or NXT. It is something very different. It is like some kind of voting system where miners bet on the right (correct) blocks. If you bet on the right block that is supported by the network, you get the fees. If you bet on the wrong block, or a block on a fork, you can be banned from the network or you lose your stake/ pledge. So, it’s some kind of economical incentive here so you can not only gain some money but also lose some money. It is very ambitious, and interesting, but it will take time to actually implement it.

Lootz: “Will assets be able to give dividends? If somebody creates an asset, will they be able to give dividends?”

Sasha: “Yea, sure. We have the mass payments script almost ready. So, next week we will have it. Tomorrow we will send the dividends. We’ll send those WCT tokens as dividends using our mass payments script. So yea, you can send dividends of course.”

Lootz: “So that’s how the WCT is going to be distributed, as a dividend.”

Sasha: “Yea. We will test this mass payment script at the same time. So it’s like… we’ll do both. We’ll send the token and we’ll test our script.

Lootz: “When can we expect the custom token creation price to be higher than they currently are?”

Sasha: “Miners can decide on that. For example, they can stop processing issues for 1 Wave and ask for 10 Waves. So, it’s a kind of consensus. We can tweak it of course, to have some type of minimum but it’s also up to miners. Miners can decide to choose to raise the fee, for example. So, at the moment I think it is ok, and we are thinking about some kind of different assets like, that can be more expensive. So they will have unique names and some other functionality too. It’s not decided yet, but it’s an option.”

Lootz: “Any update on the partnership with Mycelium?

“The Mycelium guys… I don’t know what they are doing now because they had some issues. So, they have been running several crowdfunding campaigns for MassNetwork and Swish, and they failed. So, I don’t know guys. I don’t mind working with them but I think they have some issues at the moment. If they solve them, I’ll be ready to cooperate with them. But, we’ll have our own mobile application soon and we’ll have our native applications for the android platform and the Apple platform. So, I think we’re good so we don’t need to cooperate with this with our platforms. We will have our own mobile apps.”

Lootz: “Recently Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong held a Twitter poll asking which cryptocurrency should next be added to Coinbase. What do you make of his somewhat dismissive response to the Waves Platform results? Have you spoken to him or Coinbase employees about this?”

Sasha: “I don’t think it was dismissive because there was some obvious manipulation. Nav Coin, I think, was the first. He wrote about the Nav coin, not about us, because we are legit. We have a big community and I don’t think there was any manipulation in the votes for Waves. I talked to them; I talked to them on Skype about a month ago. They implemented Monero now, and they’re having some problems with the IRS. Probably, it’s not the most urgent thing for them to implement Waves at this stage. But, we are definitely on the list, and we will be talking to them. So, I think that we have a good chance to be implemented there within the next few months.“

Lootz: “I have one more very important question. Vindyne8 (on slack) wants to know when are you going to send him a T-Shirt?”

Sasha: “We ordered new T-Shirts because we almost ran out of the old black t-shirts. We have only very small sizes. We have the next batch soon and of course we will send it to all the active people on slack. And, it’s going to look nicer because we had some issues with the old black ones. This one is going to be white, and cooler.”

Lootz: “Careful what you say because there are 2416 people on this slack.”

Sasha: “Ah, yea, but not all of them are active. We’ll send them only to active guys.”

Lootz: “Alright, I think we’ve about covered it all. You need to get some sleep; I know it’s early in the morning for you over there.”

Sasha: “Yea it’s 3AM, but that’s ok. It was a nice conversation. Thank you. It was two hours and I hope I was able to reply to most of your questions. Thank you guys and see you later.”